مساعدة "جدال بيني وبين مسيحي

شيخة اهلها;15309499:
أنا مثلك حبيبتي احينا ادخل في مناقشة وما يكون الطرف الثاني مقتنع او عنده قابلية للاستيعاب لان هو في الاساس حاط في باله فكرة قديمة فاسكت لان ما احب ادخل في مجادلات معاهم

اما بالنسبة شنو تردين عليه قولي له هنا لم يقصد الضرب المبرح او الذي يؤذي لان الاسلام اعطى حكم على سبيل المثال لو ان ام ضربت ابنها واحمرتبشرة الطفل من الضرب عليها ان تدفع مقدار معين من الدية واذا اخضرت بشرته من شدة الضرب عليها دية مضاعفة واذا لا سمحع الله خدشته بالخطا وسال الدم عليها دية اخرى وهذا اكبر دليل ان الاسلام لا يؤيد العنف. وهنا اذكر قصة طريفة قراتها في احدى الجرايد على نفس الاية ان هناك شخص صعيدي قرا كلمة " فعظوهن" اي انصحوهن خطا وهو كان فاهم عظوهن يعني العض بالاسنان فكان كلما تشاجر مع زوجته عضاها لما راحت تشكيه للقاضي قالت له هو كل يعضني في جسمي قال القران يقولهكذا وقرا الاية قال له القاضي يا اخي انت فاهم غلط.



هذا شي اذكري له الميراث على سبيل المثال ان المراة ترث في الاسلام بينما لا ترث في الديانات الاخرى وان هنا المراة يدفع لها مهر بينما انتم مجانا والاسلام سن الزواج للمراة لكي يحميها من العابثين بالشرف بينما انتم عادي ان الوحدة تحمل وبعدين حبيب القلب يقول لها هذا مب ولدي ولد واحد ثاني.

الشي الثاني قولي له الاسلام يعامل المراة كالملكة فملكة اي دولة اجنبية لا تسلم او تصافح باليد ايا كان في الشارع فقط هناك اشخاص محددين ومعينين تصافحهم فما المانع ان نكون ملكات واميرات ولا نسلم الا فقط وفقط على اناس محددين

آسفة على الاطالة والله يهديه

احلى~حلوه;15309524:
قوليله
ببساطه حتى الضرب له ضوابط! مايكون عالوجه مايكون مبرح ومؤذي وترجميله حديذ الرسول بحجة الوداع-اذا ماني غلطانه- رفقا بالقوارير
بعدين قوليله نسبة الضرب عندهم والتعنيف الاسري اكثر من عندنا بسبب الشرب والمخدرات!
بعدين قوليله ابنك لو غلط وماقدرت تضبطه باي نوع من الانواع وش تسوي؟ بتضربه هل انت تكره ابنك لا هل بتسبب له تشوه لا بس من ناحية التاديب البسيط!
بعدين بعض الناس تفكيرهم عقيم ومثل ماانتي متعصبه لدينك هو متعصب لدينه

Daisy Ash;15309674:
حياج الله عزيزتي...

جبت لج شرح وافي عن الآية 34 من سورة النساء... للأسف إن الشخص اللي تتجادلين معاه خذ الترجمة بس، و ما بحث عن المعنى الحقيقي للآية!

هذي الجزئية اللي تخص الضرب مثل ما يقول...

"beat them or separate them (from you)"

. If even suspension of sexual relations fails to work, then it is suggested that men use dharb. This word has almost universally been translated here as "beating". Such a translation is supported by some passages in the Qur'an where the word does mean smiting or striking (2:60, 61, 73, 8:12, 50, 7:160 etc). But in many other Qur'anic passages there are other meanings of the word. Thus the word can mean constructing or coining something such as coining mathal or similitude (14:24, 16:75-76, 30:28, 36:27 etc). The word is also used to separate two things. In 20:77 it is used of the splitting of the sea to make a way for the children of Israel to escape and in 57:13 it is used of making a wall to separate the two groups of people in the hereafter. Leaving, withdrawing or taking away is the meaning in 43:5. In 13:17 the word is used of separating truth and falsehood. The word can also mean campaigning or traveling in the land, e.g., for the purpose of trade (2:273, 73:20).

In the present context, the Qur'anic usage allows two meanings: 1) separating from the wives in the sense of living apart from them, 2) beating them. The Arabic language also allows a third meaning: 3) have sex with them. The first meaning fits the context well, for some kind of physical separation is a very understandable step after suspension of sexual relations does not work. The second meaning is more natural from a linguistic point of view and has the support of a strong consensus among the commentators. The third meaning has no support in the Qur'anic usage. In the rest of this commentary, we consider the question: how is "beating", if that is what is intended in the verse, is to be interpreted in the light of the passage as a whole and the general teaching of the Qur'an.

In this connection, it must be immediately noted that there is no warrant here in this verse for wife battering. The suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behavior that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and suspension of sexual relations and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage. Once it is clear that it is not working it is to be abandoned in favor of some other steps involving relatives of the husband and the wife mentioned in the next verse (4:35). There is therefore, absolutely no license here for the type of regular and continual wife beating that goes on in some homes, where each time the husband is angry with his wife or with someone else he turns against her and beats her up. In most such cases, the husband has no moral superiority over the wife: the only rule of Shari'ah that he cares about is this suggestion about beating. He also does not have the kind of control over his sexual passions needed to separate the wife in bed and often beats her the day before or the day after making love to her, an action specifically condemned by the Prophet.(4)

In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following further points should also be noted:

a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say that the beating should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, it is not clear how such a beating can help overcome nushuz of the wife, a point that supports the first meaning of dharb. If dharb is translated as "beating", as most commentators do, then "beating" should be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nushuz. This means that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions. As for the argument that the Prophet intensely disliked beating, we can say that his intense dislike was for the type of beating done outside the limits set down by God.

b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behavior on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.

c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Qur'an and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her. In our view the saying attributed to the Prophet on the authority of `Umar that a husband will not be asked on the day of judgment about why he beat his wife is not a part of the authentic teaching of Islam.

d) Some Muslim jurists are of the opinion that beating is permissible but not advisable. They base their view on the fact that the Prophet intensely disliked the action. But to say that beating is only permissible but never advisable is to say that there is never any good in it but the husband can nevertheless resort to it if he wants to; in other words he can beat up his wife without any good reason. This, however, is a view that cannot possibly be attributed to the Book of God. We can expect the Holy Qur'an to mention beating only if there was some wisdom in that mention. Therefore, if we translate dharb as "beating" we must not be apologetic but ask what is the wisdom behind the Qur'anic suggestion. There could be, it seems, two possible points of wisdom in the suggestion of dhard in the sense of "beating".

First, the beating done within the limits defined by the Qur'an may indeed bring the husband and wife to some kind of understanding. This is not because of the pain involved, which in any case cannot be too much if the guidance in the Qur'an and Hadith are to be observed. Rather, the husband and wife may come closer together after beating because of the emotions involved. The wife may experience the depth of hurt and disturbance her nushuz is causing and if there is any love left among them may decide for that reason to change her conduct. It seems from observations of human behavior that a show of male physical energy can sometimes bring a woman out of a prolonged bad mood (5) even though this energy may be seemingly directed against her in the form of angry words or a slap, provided in this manifestation of energy there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman. In the situation with which the present verse is dealing, it is understood that in his heart the husband does have some love and desire for the wife. For, he has the option of divorcing her but he is not taking that option. Of course, there are husbands who neither love their wives nor divorce them, but keep them to punish them or exploit them. But we are not dealing with this situation here, since the assumption is that ill-will (nushuz) is from the wife's side.

Second, the mention of beating may have the wisdom, ironically, to protect wives against what is called wife battering. The Qur'an does not always combat undesirable behavior by legal prohibition but by some other means. Experience also shows that legal prohibition of an action may not always be the most effective method to stop it. The Qur'an by requiring that before any beating there should be admonishing and suspension of sexual relations is providing a more effective measure against wife battering, since battering is the result of uncontrollable anger or aggression and this anger or aggression can be tamed during admonishing and suspension of sexual relations. No statistics exist, but I feel confident that if we research the behavior of men in different religious groups over a long enough period and a vast enough area of the globe, we will find that the incidents of cases of wife battering and other forms of cruelty to women have been less, both in terms of numbers and seriousness, among Muslims than in other groups.

مجمل الكلام، هو يوضح مختلف المعاني لكلمة "ضرب" و يبين المواضع اللي جات فيها هذي الكلمة في القرآن، و معنى الكلمة حسب موضعها...

الشرح جداً جميل و واضح، و إن شاء الله راح يأثر فيه!

و أنا راح أرسل لج رابط الموقع عشان تقرين شرح الآية كامل...

موفقة إن شاء الله F: